Thingmen

We’ve cast ourselves in the role of Icelandic goðar [chieftains]. As such, we’re each recognized as the most respected leading men in our imaginary districts. Though we’re not exactly nobles or lords according to the traditional lord-retainer model of medieval Europe (see episode 1), we do have formal personal alliances with free men and landholding farmers. These are our thingmen. They follow us to the thing [assembly] and support our causes with their wit, wisdom, influence, and (if it comes to it) their ability to wield a weapon well.

Near the end of each episode, we’ll both pick a thingman from the saga (royalty are excluded by rule). By the time we’ve finished reviewing each of the Sagas of the Icelanders we’ll each have a group of 40 thingmen.

At the end of this incarnation of the podcast, we’ll head to the Althing with our respective thingmen.  With so much pride on the line we wonder:

Who has the best group of thingmen? Who will emerge victorious from the final battle (legal or otherwise)?

THE SAGA OF GUNNAR OF KELDUGNUP
Andy’s Pick: Fala the Troll Woman	John’s Pick: Helgi Thorbjarnarson

THE SAGA OF THE SWORN BROTHERS
Andy’s Pick: Thormod Kolbrun’s Poet	John’s Pick: Grima the Sorceress of Ogur

THE SAGA OF THORD MENACE
Andy’s Pick: Eið Skeggjasson	John’s Pick: Thord Menace

THE SAGA OF BARD THE GOD OF SNOWFELL
Andy’s Pick: Snáti the Wonder Dog	John’s Pick: Bard snæfellsáss

THE SAGA OF HORD AND THE HOLM-DWELLERS
Andy’s Pick: Thorbjorg Grimkellsdottir	John’s Pick: Helga the Earl’s Daughter

THE SAGA OF EGIL SKALLAGRIMSSON
Andy’s Pick: Arinbjorn Thorisson	John’s Pick: Egil Skallagrimsson

THE “SAGA” OF ALE-HOOD
Andy’s Pick: Thorkel Geitisson	John’s Pick: Guðmund the Powerful

THE SAGA OF THE PEOPLE OF FLOI
Andy’s Pick: Thorgils Scar-Leg’s Stepson	John’s Pick: Asgrim Ellida-Grimsson

THE SAGA OF THE PEOPLE OF KJALARNES
Andy’s Pick: Thorgrim Helgisson	John’s Pick: Esja, the witch of the mountain.

THE SAGA OF REF THE SLY
Andy’s Pick: Gest Oddleifsson (After some backtracking and agreeing to waive his right to first-pick in the next saga.)	John’s Pick: Ref the Sly

THE SAGA OF DROPLAUG’S SONS

Andy’s Pick Helgi Droplaugarson John’s Response

John’s Pick Grim Droplaugarson Andy’s Response Grim is a good choice, just not the right choice.  He does, however, have a certain charm that makes him an excellent addition to John’s group of thingmen.  Nobody digs a hole like Grim.  He’s a great swimmer.  Most important, he avenges his brother. And he takes on an evil Viking in the name of friendship and justice.  John did well to pick him, even if he’s not quite the man his brother Helgi was.

THE SAGA OF THE PEOPLE OF VOPNAFJORD

Andy’s Pick Thorvard the Healer John’s Response

John’s Pick Bjarni Brodd-Helgisson Andy’s Response This is a reasonable pick. Despite killing his foster-father, I think Bjarni handles himself well in this saga.  He’s capable and compassionate.  Not a bad choice at all, even if he’s rather bland in the end.  He won’t outshine anyone else on John’s bench, save Thorstein the White.  Meanwhile, I managed to recruit a guy who can patch my team back together and get them back on the field quickly.  I’m quite pleased with the way this came together.

THE SAGA OF THORSTEIN THE WHITE
Andy’s Pick Thorstein the Fair John’s Response	John’s Pick Thorstein the White Andy’s Response Look, I asked if we could just go back to Njal’s Saga and choose another thingman.  John said no.  His reward is an octogenarian farmer with bad eyesight for a thingman. Great job, John.  Great job.

NJAL’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Kari Solmundarson   John’s Response	John’s Pick Njal Thorgeirsson Andy’s Response You’ll get no argument from me.  This is Njal’s saga.  There’s only one better pick available in the whole saga, but only one man can have Kari Solmundarson.
SAGA OF THE PEOPLE OF REYKJADAL AND KILLER-SKUTA
Andy’s Pick Killer Skuta John’s Response	John’s Pick Eyjolf Valgerdarson Andy’s Response A bit of a surprise pick here.  There’s no denying that Eyjolf Valgerdarson wields some power in Iceland.  He’s listed as one of the most powerful chieftains in Iceland during his lifetime.  That’s certainly impressive.  The problem here is that Eyjolf isn’t really in the saga.  He works in the background.  I’d write more about John’s routine of changing the rules of thingmen selection in the midst of the game…but I’m better than that.  Again, disappointed.  Very disappointed.
FINNBOGI’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Thorgeir goði of Ljosavatn John’s Response Andy went for political clout rather than character with this pick. That’s not a bad choice necessarily, but as he admits in his evaluation of my choice, he’s not making that decision based on any high-minded ideals. Thorgeir was a “best available” pick–and even then, I’m not sure I agree that he was a better choice than the Ingimundarsons, who went unchosen for a second time after being jilted by us both in Vatnsdæla saga. Sadly, Andy was seduced by the promise of political power–he’s clearly been watching House of Cards, but fails to understand that it’s a cautionary tale.	John’s Pick Finnbogi the Strong Andy’s Response Had I elected to pick first, I would very likely have taken Finnbogi. What’s not to like about the guy? He’s strong. And…strong.  And let’s not forget that he’s strong.  Instead, I got one of the more influential goðar in all of Iceland. John attempted to pull some chicanery by not mentioning Thorgeir the goði as a thingman option in the hopes of picking him up in another saga.  In addition to giving Finnbogi good advice and saving his hide more than once, Thorgeir is also an influential lawspeaker who will change the course of Iceland’s history. We’ll see him again in Njal’s Saga.
SAGA OF THE GREENLANDERS
Andy’s Pick Thorfinn Karlsefni John’s Response Funny thing about this pick–Andy and I both agreed that Karlsefni wasn’t worth taking in Eirik the Red’s saga a couple of years back. I didn’t think he’d improved any with time, and I don’t think Andy really thinks so either. This is a clear case of trying to make a silk purse out of the pig’s ear that was the paucity of worthwhile thingmen in this saga.	John’s Pick Snorri Thorfinnsson  Andy’s Response This pick really doesn’t deserve much comment. Sure, there’s some stuff named after Snorri.  Sure, he’s the first European born in the New World (at least on record).  But we’re drafting men into our ranks, not babies for our daycare. As a character who is present in the action of the saga only as a baby, Snorri brings very little to the table.   He’s a footnote.  That said, I feel for John, because I don’t know who else he could have picked.
GRETTIR’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Onund Treefoot  John’s Response I agree with Andy’s pick here wholeheartedly–choosing Grettir over Onund was the hardest choice I’ve made yet in this contest. That’s in no way regret for adding Grettir to my mead hall–it’s more an endorsement of Onund Trefotr as a very strong second pick. I’ve spent a lot of time on Onund as a scholarly subject, but ultimately I was so intrigued by Grettir’s qualities as a tragic ubermensch that I had to bring him on board. But I approve Andy’s pick here, and I won’t say a word against Onund.	John’s Pick Grettir Asmundarson  Andy’s Response This is an interesting choice.  Grettir is a famous Icelander with a very impressive resume.  Unfortunately, he’s also got a pretty lengthy rap sheet.  But that isn’t the real problem of Grettir.  He’s the kid who always got “Does not work well with others” on his report card.  And that’s an understatement.  For all of Grettir’s amazing, monster-slaying abilities, he’s simply not capable of working as part of a team.  I understand John’s choice, but I think it’s a risky move.
VATNSDÆLA SAGA
Andy’s Pick Thorkel Scratcher  John’s Response There’s nothing wrong with ol’ Scratch as a thingman. But in a saga as chock full of great Thingmen as Vatnsdæla, and with specimens of potential thingmanhood like Ingimund and the Ingimundarsons, Ingolf “Stone-slab armor” Thorsteinsson, and Thorstein Ketilsson, I’m a little surprised to see him taken at all. Besides, the author’s half-hearted enthusiasm for Scratcher’s unconvincing adventures doesn’t seem as much of a ringing endorsement to me as it must have seemed to Andy. That said, there’s certainly no shame in Thorkel Scratcher having a seat in Andy’s hall–he’s a man of sterling qualities, and in any case I don’t think there was a bad pick to be made in this saga.	John’s Pick Ingimund the Old  Andy’s Response Had I gone first this time around, it’s very likely that I would have chosen Ingimund the Old.  I did, however, find myself debating whether or not to take him if he were still on the board after John picked.  You see, the problem with Ingimund is that he’s just too good to be true.  Like his ancestors, he’s more of a fairy tale character than a true hero of the Icelandic Saga Age.  While I appreciate his monkish pacifism, I don’t know how much a guy like him would help me as a thingman.  I need someone who is physically capable, wise, and ready to respond to the dangers of the day with more than a “please be good, boys.”  So, Ingimund may be attractive at first glance, but, like the costume jewelry John wears, he just doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.  I’m happier with my more capable thingman, Thorkel Scratcher.
VIGLUND’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Viglund Thorgrimsson  John’s Response This is the first time we’ve taken a pair of brothers as Thingmen, and I’m not surprised that Andy went for the more well-known one with the first pick. But there’s a strong case to be made that he got the lesser brother–Viglund’s essentially a type rather than an individual. He’s not a bad type, but without his brother’s good influence, it’s clear he’d be little more than a lovesick murderer. I think Trausti’s wry wit and superior moral code outshine Viglund despite his starring role.	John’s Pick Trausti Thorgrimsson  Andy’s Response This is one of those situations where John had little choice. Trausti, like many of the characters in this saga, plays to his type. He’s loyal and trustworthy, thus his rather obvious name. Like Thorstein Kuggason, he’s pretty unremarkable.  If I’m Snorri goði, I’d be wondering about the group of men John’s been collecting for him to work with lately
THE SAGA OF BJORN CHAMPION OF THE HITARDAL PEOPLE
Andy’s Pick Bjorn Champion of the Hitardal People  John’s Response In the short view, Bjorn is clearly the brand-name guy in this saga. He’s got a lot going for him, not least of which is his status as a (possible) dragonslayer. But he’s probably the least impressive poet among the so-called Warrior-Poets, and his feud with Thord, while satisfyingly bloody, ends with all his neighbors (including some relatively honorable men) banding together to rid themselves of a man they see as an intolerable menace. I’d still have taken Bjorn if he were available, but I don’t think the choice is as clear-cut as Andy would like to believe.	John’s Pick Thorstein Kuggason  Andy’s Response John was in a tough place here.  There’s only one true thingman in this saga. Since Bjorn was already gone by the time John arrived at the thing, he was left with the scraps.  It’s not like Thorstein is a bad guy, it’s just that he’s pretty unremarkable, despite John’s attempts to sell the audience on his virtues.  He is loyal and fair, which are nice attributes in a thingman.  In the end, John was doomed the moment he chose to go first in Kormak’s Saga.
KORMAK’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Bersi the Dueller  John’s Response There wasn’t any real question about Andy’s choice. I took Kormak for obvious reasons–he’s probably the second most famous warrior-poet in all saga literature. Once Kormak was taken, it was a pretty reasonable move to take Bersi as Thingman. I think, though, that Andy’s comments are those of a man trying to convince himself that his silver medal is gold–Bersi’s a pretty flawed and bloodthirsty figure who might’ve been up for outlawry if we hadn’t had Narfi to kick around. On the whole, though, I would probably have considered Bersi if Kormak hadn’t been available…but that’s a pretty significant “if.”	John’s Pick Kormak  Andy’s Response There really were only two options in this saga, which is typical of the sub-genre we’ve been covering.  I wasn’t at all surprised by John’s selection of Kormak.  Quite frankly, I think Kormak is a great choice.  Like John said, the guy is one of the more famous poets to come out of medieval Iceland.  But he’s also a bit more troublesome than my more excellent and accomplished thingman, Hallfred. Indeed, John spends a good deal of the Kormak’s Saga episode undercutting his future thingman for all his weaknesses.  I believe John says at one point, “I would question whether Kormak is all that famous a hero.” My thoughts exactly. I’ll conclude this assessment with a reminder of a brief exchange from the episode: Andy: Bersi’s kind of the star of the saga. John: I would tend to agree.
THE SAGA OF HALLFRED TROUBLESOME POET
Andy’s Pick Hallfred Troublesome-Poet  John’s Response This was the obvious choice, and since Andy had first pick for this saga, it’s not surprising that he went for Hallfred, an accomplished poet, globetrotter, and bosom companion of Olaf Tryggvason. Of course, obvious doesn’t always meanright–ultimately, Hallfred’s not so much a saga hero as a Norwegian king’s pet project. He may be an ornament of Andy’s court, but Hallfred isn’t my kind of Thingman.	John’s Pick Gris Saemingsson  Andy’s Response When he was a fictional young man and out of this saga altogether, Gris had a lot going for him. He was a member of the Varangian Guard. For that reason alone I seriously considered taking him. But that was long ago. Sure, he’s a nice guy. A really nice guy. Ultimately, however, he doesn’t do anything. He’s a farmer who lets other men sleep with his wife and can’t seem to do anything about it. I can’t help but chuckle at this choice.
THE SAGA OF GUNNLAUG SERPENT-TONGUE
Andy’s Pick Thorstein Egilsson  John’s Response I got the drop on Andy this time out by nabbing Skafti, but I can’t deny that Thorstein’s a heck of a consolation prize. A great bloodline, a quick-witted man, and let’s not forget that berserkers and shape-shifters are in his family tree. Thorstein definitely would’ve been my second choice.	John’s Pick Skafti the Lawspeaker  Andy’s Response First of all, I don’t want to hear anything else about Killer Styr. Talk about choosing a bit player in the saga. Second of all, I would have chosen Skafti if I had gone first. So, I’ll just have to accept my consolation prize. Thorstein’s pretty cool…right?
BANDAMANNA SAGA
Andy’s Pick Beard-Broddi Bjarnason  John’s Response A forgettable choice, but not outlandish considering the paucity of quality thingmen in this saga. Beard-Broddi Bjarnason makes for a solid rank-and-filer, though I’d worry about his tendency to get involved in spurious lawsuits. But at least he has the good sense to keep his mouth shut when my thingman Ofeig is speaking!	John’s Pick Ofeig Skiðason  Andy’s Response Ofeig is a great choice, if you’re looking for a poor and powerless man to hatch a plan. Combined with Snorri goði, this group of thingmen has an impressive amount of craftiness. While I deeply admire Ofeig’s moral conviction, he simply lacks the necessary connections and reputation to really make a difference.  Beard-Broddi, on the other hand, is well off, well respected, and politically savvy.  He plays the role of peacemaker in other sagas, so he can’t be that bad. Ofeig, like John, is also a bit of an ornery old man. I certainly hope my buddy doesn’t take any of Ofeig’s parenting advice.
HEN-THORIR’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Tungu Odd  John’s Response I’m genuinely shocked by this pick. I know I caught Andy off guard with my selection of Thord Bellower, but I expected a better backup plan than this. Tungu-Odd may be a powerful figure, but a number of other people in this saga are also powerful…and ultimately, Odd’s the loser in this saga, both in the narrative and in our hearts. I can’t help the obvious pun–Andy’s selection makes him the odd man out in this round.	John’s Pick Thord Bellower  Andy’s Response Thord is certainly an impressive character to have on your side.  He’s one of those guys that shows up in a lot of sagas and he usually makes a good impression.  I wish I could say something bad about him, but he’s the guy I really wanted this time around.  While John may have gotten a good thingman, I think I did too.  Plus, he’s still got the dead weight of Leif ‘I don’t do much really’ Eiriksson and Thorkel ‘I don’t even exist’ Thjostarsson.
GISLI’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Gisli Sursson  John’s Response Well, this was sort of a no-brainer—Gísli’s clearly a blue-chip guy to have on Andy’s roster. Andy played the long game here, deferring on first pick last time and fending off my efforts to outlaw Gísli in this episode. Well played, sir!	John’s Pick Aud Vesteinsdottir  Andy’s Response A very unorthodox choice, but one I wholeheartedly approve. There are few more noble women in the sagas than Aud Vesteinsdottir.  At the same time, while she may be a loyal companion to Gisli, I wonder what she really brings to the table.
EIRIK THE RED’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Styr Thorgrimsson  John’s Response Andy’s clearly desperate at this point—Styr Thorgrimsson barely appears in the saga, and this pick means a good man like Thorfinn Karlsefni is left out of the Thingmen.  And Styr is Snorri Goði’s father-in-law…Andy’s clearly still reeling from losing Snorri last episode.	John’s Pick Leif Eiriksson  Andy’s Response John went the obvious route on this one and chose Leif Eiriksson, discoverer of the New World.  Who wouldn’t want a windblown missionary helping them at the Alþing?  Well…me!  That’s why I deferred. I see great things coming for me in Gisli’s Saga.
EYRBYGGJA SAGA
Andy’s Pick Arnkel the Priest  John’s Response Arnkel strikes me  as the goody-two-shoes choice, probably made to underscore my alleged ‘conniving’ in taking Snorri. On balance, Andy go the guy I’d rather have a beer with, but I got the guy I’d rather not have plotting against me.	John’s Pick Snorri Goði  Andy’s Response John proved himself to be a conniving scoundrel in choosing the man he’d spent nearly two hours criticizing. Snorri is one of the best, so this is a real win for John. That left me with Arnkel, which isn’t so bad…right?
HRAFNKEL’S SAGA
Andy’s Pick Hrafnkel Hallfredarson  John’s Response Andy made the obvious choice, but I think he’ll regret allying himself with such a famously difficult man…if he’ll kill his own shepherd over a joyride on a horse, what’ll he do when he gets tired of Andy’s leadership?	John’s Pick Thorkel Thjostarsson  Andy’s Response First, I want to be clear that I chose the reformed Hrafnkel.  John chose the only other real option—if I’d lost the coin toss, I’d probably have done the same thing. Thorkel’s clearly a stand-up guy. Still, I think John’s lost some ground to me early on!